Live blogging the town hall debate

Tonight we are hunkered down on the couch with a plate of pasta watching this second of three presidential debates. Thoughts follow below. All times are Central Daylight Time.

8:02 p.m. - Looks like I missed my opportunity to submit my question online. For the record, here it was: Senator McCain. Last month, as the financial crisis was beginning in earnest, you gave a speech in which you said the fundamentals of the economy were strong. Without falling back on the assertion that you meant workers when you said "fundamentals," how would you describe the state of the economy now. I'm referring specifically to the fundamentals of the capital economy, not the workforce economy, since without capital workers do not get paid. How do you view the state of the capital markets and what if anything do you think needs to be done to shore them up? Please be specific and do not ply us with empty campaign rhetoric. The same question to Sen. Obama, minus the reference to the fundamentals being strong.

8:04 - A question on the economy, about bailing out regular folks. Obama says this is a verdict on the last eight years of free market policies. You can't regulate greed, Barack.

8:06 - McCain tells Obama it's good to be at a town hall debate with him. He says this without looking at him.

8:07 - Is McCain going to sit in the questioner's lap? He knows how to get the economy going for working Americans.

Brokaw follow-up - who will you appoint as Treasury Secretary? Warren Buffet. Meg Whitman. Someone who inspires trust and confidence. Actually a good answer. Obama agrees about Warren (another agreement with McCain). Now Obama is talking about middle-class tax cuts. "Senator McCain is right that we have to stabilize housing prices, but...." But Obama didn't answer the question.

8:14 - Obama: The biggest problem is deregulation of the financial system. Again, you can't regulate greed. The derivatives themselves weren't the problem; it's much more complex than that. And additional regulation will require additional resources for the regulatory agencies, which equals more government spending.

8:20 - Obama says he's proposing a net spending cut, in response to a question about why we should trust either candidate with our money given both parties' roles in the current financial crisis. McCain beats the reform gong. He suggests people visit "watchdog organizations" such as the Citizens Against Government Waste, National Taxpayers Union. CAGW is a conservative organization, while the NTU advocates for a flat tax.

8:26 - Obama's spending priorities: energy, healthcare, education. Also have to prioritize income, including tax cuts for the middle class but not continuing the Bush tax cuts.

8:29 - So far I can't say that any of these people are learning much about either candidate that they didn't know. All the familiar themes are being echoed, the same little potshots taken. Both men know how to move around the stage, address their questioners, show empathy. Both men are also going way over the agreed-upon time allotments, which is clearly getting on Tom Brokaw's nerves. But Obama is by and large being much more clear with specifics, as opposed to McCain's "I know how to do it" answers. The only question McCain has answered directly and clearly was who he would appoint as Treasury Secretary.

8:33 - A good follow up question from Tom Brokaw about what as president Obama would do about the culture of easy credit is an opportunity passed. Obama is talking about reining in Washington spending to set an example. That's a Beltway-centric viewpoint. McCain responds by accusing Obama of wanting to raise taxes on small business, more discussion of his tax own tax policy. More D.C. rhetoric. Why not talk about using the bully pulpit to encourage people to be more fiscally responsible. Washington didn't create the mortgage securitization industry, and aside from the suggestion by then-Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan that homeowners seek out adjustable-rate mortgages, Washington didn't make homeowners take out mortgages they couldn't afford or buy houses that were doomed to lose value. My mortgage isn't in danger of default, and I don't have oppressive credit card debt. I've been fortunate to have a good job but more importantly I've kept my spending under control. I don't buy things I know I can't afford and if I do have to buy a big-ticket item I cut spending elsewhere. It's about personal responsibility. Government regulation and bailouts won't change behavior in any real or lasting way.

8:45 - I wasn't listening to the question, because I was typing the previous entry, but the candidates are talking about energy policy. One thing nobody has mentioned yet is that we could, you know, use less. We can drive less, live closer to work and school and shopping. This is one place where government actually could be helpful - in terms of more strict land use planning policies that encourage density in urban areas and redevelopment of suburban areas into less zoned, more dense developments and the funding of public transportation initiatives as opposed to highways.

8:47 - Tom, if you're so worried about the time limits, cut the microphones. Shit, at the Academy Awards they cut the mike and start the music.

8:50 - "Should health care be treated as a commodity?" What does that even mean? The questions are, how do we cover all Americans with healthcare and rein in healthcare costs? McCain: What's at stake here in terms of healthcare is the fundamental difference between myself and Senator Obama. No, actually what's at stake is how it is that the United States does not ensure that all its citizens are covered by healthcare. And it's not about choice. Those covered by private healthcare should be able to choose their doctors and their level of coverage. Those consigned to a government healthcare plan should still receive high quality care but will probably have less of a choice.

9:06 - I hope someone is keeping a running "my friends" count. Can we get a dollar donated to the U.S. Treasury every time McCain uses the phrase "my friends?" We'll solve the credit crisis in about an hour.

9:11 - First McCain "Teddy Roosevelt" reference. I think there was a Reagan reference earlier. I love McCain's answer on this Pakistan issue. He accuses Obama of threatening to attack Pakistan, which he believes is a dangerous mistake. First off, Obama isn't threatening to attack Pakistan at all. Second, even if he was his rhetoric wouldn't be any more threatening than Sarah Palin telling Charles Gibson that we might have to go to war with Russia.

9:18 - Did McCain just say Obama was "correct" on some things with respect to Afghanistan? Hey, there's a unicorn in my living room....

9:19 - Russia discussion. McCain gets off his Putin-KGB line. Yawn. Moral support should be provided to Georgia and the Ukraine. Obama: Russian resurgence is the central issue we'll have to deal with in the next presidency. Russia's "resurgence" is transitory and dependent totally on energy prices, which fluctuate with the global economy. If the world enters a global economic downturn, Russia will find its finances sorely crimped. This could actually make it more dangerous, driving popular discontent and possibly a resurgence of communism or even some kind of civil war that puts Russian nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists.

9:24 - Six minutes to go, two more questions. Good effing luck, Tom.

9:29 - The Iran discussion has taken up five of the remaining six minutes. Nothing new offered.

9:30 - What don't you know, and how will you learn it? That's the last fucking question? Jesus, well that's a fitting question on which to end this debate. Predictable questions, predictable answers, the same rhetoric we've been hearing. I guess that's the town hall format. Predictably, Obama talks about what he does know - the opportunity of America - and uses it for his closing statement. McCain says what he doesn't know is what will happen at home and abroad. "What I don't know is what the unexpected will be." Somehwere Kant is scratching his head. And now McCain moves into his closing, after a transparent attempt at answering the final question.

9:34 - And so endeth the least informative debate I've ever seen. I'm biased, but I think Obama won in terms of completeness of his answers and his insistence on clearing the record when McCain would mischaracterize his positions. McCain kept his answers shorter, but largely because they were meaningless and empty.

Now the pundits and spinmeisters will take over and tell us who won. Me? I've already made up my mind, so this debate wasn't about convincing me or even reinforcing my decision.

On MSNBC, Chris Matthews is telling me what I think ... I mean, what he thinks, and he makes an interesting point: McCain never brought up Bill Ayers and how Obama is a terrorist, which Matthews thinks indicates he's backing away from it and is embarrassed by it. I doubt it. These attacks are all about context, and the proper context to accuse a mainstream political candidate of being a terrorist is not in a nationally televised debate, but on the campaign trail, in sound bites. And that drumbeat will no doubt continue, safely out of the reach of questions from ordinary citizens.